Wednesday, January 18, 2012

mighty thunder sticks

MIGHTY THUNDER STICKS


A minion wanted to know my thoughts on apocalypse orphans. This will be a wonderful topic but must wait for another day after it ferments in my brain awhile more. But it did get me to thinking on the subject of firearm caliber. And all our favorite surplus war bolt action rifles. If the mighty he-man warrior of the clan sucks in an airborne virus, gets sick, soils his drawers in a bloody manner and dies ingloriously, will the more frail members of his family be able to pick up one of those ten pound clubs and then actually fire one? All along my less than perfect plan had been for the wife to act as back-up with the rimfire rifle, and if needed she could use the revolvers in rimfire or even the 357 if she went with 38’s. This is all fine and dandy with me using the Enfield to reach out to longish ( I’m no sniper, but even three hundred yards is a good distance to start taking out AK users ) distances but if anything happens to me her survival chances diminish with such an arsenal. There is nothing wrong with a rimfire as the sole long arm, but it must be used in very skilled hands ( stalking, ambush ). The average survivalist is an overweight office worker, not a practiced bushwacker. And the spouse is usually going to be less skilled in the martial arts. While a good firearm in untrained hands is a marginal tool, to a certain extent the tool will substitute for that lack. In a knife fight, you are just as disadvantaged with a stainless steel $5 knife from China as with a $100 knife custom made if you are untrained. In firearms, the training level is much lower than a knife to achieve a tolerable level of skill. If you are half-assed in using a gun, the difference in the tool starts to matter ( unlike the knife ).

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Spending a grand on an AR-15 makes some sense as the carbine did have an original selling point that our little Vietnamese brothers in arms could shoot the thing far easier than the current 308 in service. They couldn’t shoot it for long as it jammed up easily, but don’t get me started on that. A African pygmy with arthritis could fire the AR for as long as it took to jam, with no discomfort. The AR is THE best design for a firearm that any urban boy could pick up and hose down the enemy. The recoil is zero. You do not flinch and can easily follow up shots. In all other aspects, this is the worst firearm every made. The parts are so over engineered that it would make a German cuss, the site is stupid, one can’t imagine why such a light weight carbine needs a carrying handle, you need a stick and a rock to extract a case jammed in the extractor, and the thing is dangerous to the user in a protracted firefight when the enemy won’t honor your request for a time out so you can clean your piece of crap. You might be tempted to arm your 100 pound five foot tall wife and your teenage children with this weapon because of the weight and recoil. As long as you hate them and want to see them die ( okay, I’m only sorta kidding ).
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For a loner survivalist, no other warm and fuzzy feeling will equal that of a scope mounted thirty caliber bolt action that will easily smite our enemies at eight hundred yards ( I ain’t that skilled, you might be- the gun certainly allows for it ). But if you have a wife and or kids, and are on a budget that precludes the purchase of four or five AR’s ( which are only three quarters of the price of the cheapest thirty caliber ), I’d recommend adopting a mid level arsenal. I’m talking about your average poor prepper here. I understand thee are plenty of Warrior Princesses out there that can pick up a M1 or whatnot and kick some serious long range ass. But that is not normal, is it? It is exceptional. Even though I applaud that skill, I won’t pretend it is normal. For the family defense unit of limited means and normal skill levels, think about carbine rounds. Yes, the 223 and 762x39. But not the semi auto rifles that are traditionally associated with those rounds. Semi-auto is retarded for a long term collapse into a dark age. You must conserve ammo from day one. And the cost of acquiring them is double. I’m suggesting civilian hunting bolt action rifles ( gasp! What of the bayonet? ).

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It is true that a surplus rifle is a far superior military arm than its lighter constructed civilian counterpart. You can shoot them longer, butt stock your enemies in the trenches, mount a bayonet and charge if you run out of ammo. You can abuse them and they still function. A deer rifle is not so accommodating. But the difference in the ammunition and weight is critical in arming females and children. Even a slender short pasty Englishman weighing one hundred twenty pounds soaking wet has the upper body strength to carry his Enfield all day long and shoot at bloody Krauts at the end of it. His wife, even if taller and matching his weight, does not. Despite what FemiNazi bitches tells you, the genders have physical differences. Males, even the weak ones, have superior strength. That is just the way it is. That also kills them quicker, so stop your whining. You fems also have the ability to store much more body fat ( and stay healthy ). If you aren’t busy at the gym trying to turn your body into one matching a pre-teen boy, you can put some fat on your ass and carry that portable apocalypse pantry around with you. Just don’t try to carry around a heavy rifle. You will only set yourself up for failure.

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A mid-caliber bolt action should be used for mid range sniping. Not close in urban assault. And it is an offensive weapon, not defensive. Don’t hunker down and wait to be attacked. The best defense is a good offense. So, while the rifle itself is not perfect or the best, it is affordable at around three hundred bucks. It should be light enough for the females and children to tote. Perhaps not easily, but easier. And the recoil, with a rifle mounted pad, should be manageable. Not as nice as a AR, but a heck of a lot nicer than a Mossin Nagant. And the benefits of scaling down your caliber are reflected in price and resources. The rounds cost half thirty caliber ( applicable to all but the 762x54r ), which means the same cost for arming two family members as one using his mighty macho thunder stick. And, while I’m not overly skilled on reloading so I can’t give exact figures, you are using less gunpowder to propel your lead down range. Yes, less stopping power and range, but more ammunition in the long run. As long as you are sniping instead of spraying and praying, the mid level calibers should only be marginally less effective ( 80/20 rule ). Now you are armed as a family with less than perfect but acceptable weapons rather than just having one member armed with the perfect rifle.

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14 comments:

Solsys said...

Woo ! A firearms post at last. I always look out for those here.

Of course, everyone has his own setting. Some are bachelors that plan on teaming up with buddies (it's always in difficult times that you find your true friends - this is why there are so many "friends since childhood" and so few real friends afterwards). Some others have a family of one wife, one mother-in-law, and three daughters. To each his own configuration !

If we contemplate the problem from the perspective of those who really ask themselves lots of questions about firearms, namely armies, then it takes another turn.

There is not only the question of the weapon's purpose, there is also the aspect of "past costs" and other accumulation. What is true for nations is also true for people.

A favorite example of mine is the 8x50R cartridge. It was the first modern cartridge (combining smokeless powder, jacketed bullet and "small" caliber). The navy Kropatchek rifle had been modified for this cartridge into the Lebel rifle just in time for massive manufacturing in 1886. This prevented another war between Germany and France in the late 1880's.

When France entered WW1, it still had lots of Lebel rifles, and thus its more modern design took over the old cartridge, for logistical reasons. In the mid-30's, some of those modern rifles, that could have been made with a more modern cartridge from the start, were retrofitted for the Mauser-like 7,5 MAS cartridge. The 8x50R cartridge was the army standard still in 1940, due to huge numbers of WW1 (and older) weapons (rifles, HMG, LMG, carbines...)in this caliber. The old cartridge still served in colonial wars until the 60's, and with law enforcement until the 80's, were it became almost one century old.

Now, it's the same with a family arsenal. Children grow up, strong people grow old and frail, weapons are passed from a generation to another. And weapons are as big a budget for families as it is for nations, thus you get stuck with what you have.

A versatile arsenal handles all situations, but has other costs in logistics and spare parts. If we're looking at a span of 40 years with "reduced economic activity" (I love to talk like Bernanke), I'd say it's better to go along with a family standard weapon & caliber that is easy to fix, if ever need be in the first place, and to reload.

Surplus bolt-actions are made for calibers that were close to the black powder era, whereas AR-15s were made for difficult to manufacture fast-expanding powders. Surplus bolt-action are forgiving, and you can make "reduced loads" for them, which will suit frail or young people well enough. Frail or young people will not typically engage people at 400 yards, but rather within 100 yards, for which the reduced load is still quite potent.

Calibers like .308 and .30-06 are still going to be around in 2030 in North America (I dare not say "USA" this far into the future), if only because they're also used in a good proportion of hunting rifles as well.

Of course, if you're attacked by two coordinated troops of twelve latino gangbangers each, you're going to end up dead no matter what.

Anonymous said...

Savage make dandy bolts in 223 at good prices. Good to 2 to 300 yrds. & while not a guaranteed killer it would put a bad wound on some one, specially if carrying hunting bullets, not military rounds. My own carry is a savage 222 because I got it & can reload it till the cows come home. Ever seen anything hit with a 60 gr. hollow point. Larry

russell1200 said...

The bolt action 223 will likely have a longer barrel and thus pack a little more punch than a short barrel AR. You can alos get a muzzle brake put on it.

Anonymous said...

Back in the very late 80's, when the grip of foreign arm surplus flood began, there was a GREAT rifle for the inexpensive prepper - the FR-8 Spanish training rifle. Chambered in 7.62NATO, cost about $100. Very rugged iron sights, carbine length and takes 8mm Mauser stripper clips that fit the above ammo - I wish I had bought at least one more!

Coupled with very inexpensive surplus ammo stocks . . . whoo boy you were in high cotton!

Anonymous said...

I love your Frugal Survivalism but you are way too hard on the AR. If you use quality brass, the correct lubricant for the environment, and clean it a little more frequently than every 10,000 rounds, you will not likely experience any problems. Sorry, but those are the facts.

But I can relate to your misgivings. I had a Toyota once and it was the worst piece-of-shit lemon I ever owned. There is NO WAY IN HELL I would ever buy another Toyota because of that experience. Irrational? Yes. But also understandable.

With rimfire, don't forget about the 17HMR. Only 23 cents a round but with nearly 300 yards of range. Two bad things about the 17HMR: not supremely accurate in windy conditions because of the low mass. And a small critter (squirrel, etc) will likely be blown all to hell. Otherwise a great varmint gun. A new 17HMR can be had for $150. A little more if you want a Savage. Still cheaper than the 10/22.

Anonymous said...

"I’m no sniper, but even three hundred yards is a good distance to start taking out AK users"

The Lee-Enfield is a fine rifle, but my understanding is that most specimens are about 4 m.o.a. in inherent accuracy. Basically, this means if the rifle were bolted down for no-user error it would shoot ~12 inch groups at 300 yards (I think my math is right). An actual shooter trying to aim the thing would do even worse. How many times have you tried to shoot a target at 300 yards? If you can hit a man-size target at that distance with your L-E, I tip my hat to you.

JP in MT said...

If you already have a 38/357 revolver around and have ammo for it, might I suggest a lever action rifle in that caliber. I have 2, a 16" and 20" and both have little to no recoil, a slight push when using "bear leads" (180 gr 357 Mag). Used, they can be found for about $400, much cheaper than an AR and the added cost of adding another caliber of ammo.

Anonymous said...

I'm 5'4" and find the recoil of the AR just plain annoying. Whereas the M1/M14, that's not recoil, that's an old friend giving you a friendly shove. I could plink all day with the M14 .... and have!

Anonymous said...

Solsys,

Your 8:44 post is why I always check the comments here. A real gem. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

I agree, Solsys, load down a 170 gr lead bullet to 1,900 fps in a 30-06. Outperform any of that commie shtt. Enough pressure to recycle the M1's bolt. Works in any 30-06 bolt deer rifle. Kill big game and vermin. Cheap, melt down your toy soldiers. Even a 110 pound weakling can handle it, except for the M1.

Mountain Rifleman

Anonymous said...

HEY DAKIN! Nice post. You feeling ok buddy? Some here in the comment section list alot of UNcommon calibers. It is my theory that you would be best served using common calibers. Say there is a collapse and you are walking through broke back battle mnt nv, and you come accross a corpse of a guy who died from exposure with a sheep, clutching a mini-14 with a full clip, if you have a bolt gun chambered in 223 you got 30 rounds you can shoot, if you have that 222 those rounds would be useless. I would say stick to 22,223,7.62x39(allot of ak's out there)308,30-30, or 306 for riffles and 22,38,357,9mm,40,44, or 45 acp for pistols and maybee a carbine or single shot riffle chambered in a pistol round for the wife and kids.

Anonymous said...

A light serviceable rifle that has low recoil and isn't scary to shoot for newbies - .357 lever rifle. Ammunition is easy and inexpensive if you shop around (or handload). Not as inexpensive as it used to be (then again - what is?), but still a great choice. Small game, varmints, big game (short range proposition) and 2 legged varmints - a lot to recommend this gun.

Anonymous said...

Solsys said...
Of course, if you're attacked by two coordinated troops of twelve latino gangbangers each, you're going to end up dead no matter what.

Not if you understand the proper use of high explosives, my friend.

The Mad Irishman said...

Let me get on my soap box here. The AR family of rifles are in my opinion one of the most versatile and dependable out there. not only can you configure it to shoot anything from .22 to .50 you can also build it on the cheap. and you dont need to be a "rocket scientist" or "bicycle mechanic" to do it. I just built not one but two for $400 and $550 respectivly.
The $400 one consists of,
LRB stripped lower $90
CMMG lpk $60
A2 stock w/spring & buffer $30
Barrel w/nut & delta ring (free)
Gas tube & pin $14
Spikes tactical BCG $125
Complete upper $50
A2 flash hider w/washer $12
Carbine handguards $15
Total $396 and yes it shoots great. most of the parts came from gun shows or second hand (ie free barrel)
The $550 gun was even simpler.
Plum Crazy lower (complete) $125
DPMS upper kit $425
Yes both required assembly,but I belive that anyone can do it. And before people get all holier than thou I do have not only these but but many others including a #1 mk3 and an Mosin Nagant M44. With a FN-FAL thrown in for fun. And no I'm not rich, hell I don't even have a job at the the moment. I don't let that stop me from doing a little bartering or side work to continue adding to my gun stash.